Do you remember, yesterday, when we were all wondering what the hell “fit as a butcher’s dog” meant? As Chris Farley would say (were he alive), that was awesome. Anyway, apparently it means that Alan Wiley can run rings around most of the players on the pitch. On Saturday, Wiley did just that, outrunning all but three United players; and the ref didn’t even have to be substituted out like a weenie, unlike a certain Paul Scholes or Darren Fletcher. Anyway, there’ s a nice graphic and quite a bit of info in the The Times. Follow the link to look at what refutation by numbers looks like.
Erm, seriously? A bunch of random numbers “proves” something? Now, in my few weeks following you guys, I’ve picked up on the lack of love for United. That’s fine. And if this is meant to be humor, that too, is fine, but “refutation by numbers” sounds an awful lot like this means something to you.
Now I realize I’m approaching territory where I get accused of having had humor-bypass surgery, but I will forge on and say that without a comparison to other referees, I’m not sure this shows anything. Wiley did look like he was puffing a bit and his distance, while admirable (in a vacuum), is obviously incomparable to the running done by the players.
I hope we can still be friends.
The article in the Times states that while Wiley was slightly below the average for distance covered among referees this season, he covered more of the pitch than all but 7 of the players on the pitch.
Now, if Fergie is saying that Wiley isn’t fit, what does that say about the Man United players that were outrun by Wiley over the 94 minutes?
Why is his distance covered incomparable to the players? The article clearly states he was well within an acceptable distance of the ball at all times, well within acceptable distance of fouls he called at all times, he sprinted numerous times, etc…
By any objective measure, he is very fit, and Fergie calling him unfit is disingenuous at best and slanderous at worst.
Wedel, of course we’re all still friends and yes, you’re right to infer that not many of us (if any) have fondness for United.
That said, whether you read these numbers as gospel or not, it does challenge somewhat Fergie’s assertion that Wiley was leaden and not with the play on Saturday.
Just throws some doubt in the pot, is all.
For the record, I don’t support Fergie’s contention in this case. The post just seemed less tongue in cheek than normal. I am happy to be the lone United supporter in the mix.
My point about them being not comparable is that there is no way that Wiley is running as hard as Darren Fletcher (football genius) or Scholes. Running as far? Yes, obviously. Sprinting occasionally? Sure. But are we seriously comparing Wiley to *any* footballer? I can’t imagine we are. Hell, if he could run with any pro (let alone a workhorse like Fletch), at his age, he’d be starting in Serie A!
I understand that he was an “acceptable” average distance from the ball. This raises the obvious questions of what were the min and the max distance from the ball? He could be massively out of position at times and still have an acceptable average. I certainly don’t know how ProZone calcs its distances. The reason I would want to see other refs is to determine if they were all around 20 or were closer to 10. Wiley’s acceptable average in a vacuum is relatively meaningless.
There’s a comment on some United blogs that Wiley actually joked with Rooney about needing a rest. Before I get skewered, I know that it is unlikely to be true. However, considering Wiley and Ferg were buddy-buddy the prior week, I wouldn’t put it past some of these refs to try to “bond” with the players.
Again though, I think Fergie miscalculated with this particular broadside.
Wedel: what irritates me more is that Fergie can be pally with a ref when his team wins and then throw him under the bus when his team scrapes out a draw.
Your points about ProZone are worth exploring, but it’s also worth noting they do a damn fine job of calculating all these new-fangled stats that have crept into the game. He might not be running as “hard” as Fletcher, but point is, he’s still running. He’s working hard to maintain a fair control of the game, and my anti-United bias aside (being an LFC fan, born and raised, for close to three decades will do that to you), I thought Wiley refereed a decent game.
It’s more Fergie’s fondness of dumping or praising refs whenever he feels like it that’s being questioned, at least the way I see it. Some times he has a point, but he’s off-base with this particular accusation, and it’s worth making that point.
What irks me is how good Ferguson is at moving the conversation away from the only thing he should really be talking about: his team. He always does this; after a loss, it’s an increasingly more ludicrous remark about a refereee. My guess is that Fergie doesn’t give a s**t about Alan Wiley, he just has stock rants he uses in case something goes wrong; if more things went wrong with United, than he’d have more of a chance to use them, but we’d notice it more.
I mean, really. Before this, have you EVER had more than a cursory conversation about referee fitness? My guess is no. Now the Times is doing referee stats, and there’s very little on Ferguson’s team absolutely blowing cock on Saturday.
JT – your point is not lost on the United faithful despite what they may say to your face. One supposes that it has worked well for him over the years and he’ll keep going to that particular well.
Not on knock on ProZone by any stretch. There are inherent limitations with any set of stats and I was just doing my best to make this post as humorless as possible. Although it would be hilarious if ProZone was 3 guys in a room drinking beer and saying, “How far did Rooney run?” “I don’t know – 72?” “72 what?” *first guy passes out* Third guy types in “72″.
Magnakai – that’s exactly it. There’s no real malice, it’s just a calculated distraction. Blowing cock is bit harsh – can we settle on “poor”?
@Wedel – your reasoned and well thought-comments are a disservice to Man United fans everywhere. We’ll have none of that here.
/ah, you’re all right
I’ll give you “pretty good” on Berbatov and “poor” on the other nine outfield players if you’ll give me “blowing cock” on Foster.
Incidentally, while I know I should hate United, I really have a hard time bringing myself to do it. At the end of the day they really do play a nice game of footie. The thing with United, though, is that the other 166.5 hours of the week (165 during European weeks) have to be accounted for, and every time Ferguson does this it just gets under my skin for some reason.
Kid – Thanks. That’s my motto: “Winning people over to Man United one supporter at a time.” Right. As if.
Magnakai – Done. Berba’s bicycle was nice enough, but I’ve been a fan back to last season as well. He gets stick from the supporters that wanted Ferg to sign up Tevez because he doesn’t seem to get stuck in or run around in circles enough, but he’s so aware and his first touch is unreal. He’s really quite good.
Foster, Foster, Foster. There’s nothing really to say, is there? I had such high hopes, but he got “deer in the headlighted” by his time in the first team. VDS can’t get back soon enough. He did 90 minutes in the Reserves against Blue Scouse, so hopefully soon.
You’re good people, Wedel. Glad you’re here to add to the conversation!
Wedel–here’s what you need to know about me. I’m an Aberdeen fan from the mid-80s. That’s the time that Sir Alex up and left the Northeast of Scotland for the brighter lights of the south (after a short spell in charge of Scotland after Jock Stein’s death). I have a love/hate thing for Fergie. I love him for everything he did in elevating the club I follow to the highest heights they could possibly ever imagine. And I respect him for doing similar for another club which had previously tasted the highs but had started to drift.
But I hate him. I loathe him with every fiber of my being. The worst part is that I know that it is all a part of his grand design–the “world is against us” mentality that he instills in his team and really takes them over the top. It’s what he did in Aberdeen and it’s what he did for your lot.
So please, stick around. We all have subjects that make us a little more unhinged than others. Sir Alex and his way of being is one of mine.
JT: glad to be here; you guys are doing a great job. Very enjoyable.
u75: what SAF did with Aberdeen is legendary and can fully understand your feelings. I find myself feeling it to some degree with Mark Hughes, who just seems like he is copying Fergie’s playbook with City’s new siege mentality. Not that Hughes at United compares to Fergie at Aberdeen (too much time away), but I’m guessing you see where I’m going.
My connection to United roughly coincides with SAF’s arrival – my family is from Glasgow and while Georgie Best’s exploits in the NASL in the late 70′s prompted my initial interest in United, having a Glaswegian at Best’s old club kind of sealed the deal. Growing up, all my friends were Cosmos fans. Being somewhat contrarian, I naturally supported Ft Lauderdale Strikers.
I have a feeling this contrarian bent will be helpful among this crowd.