Remember this guy?
Before I begin, a quick note: I’m pushing back the Spurs post to tomorrow because I want to properly read and react to today’s Champions League result. Thanks for understand. Now on with the show…
Manchester City disgust me. They are everything that is wrong with football. Their fans think that just because they have the money, now it’s OK to spend spend spend. This after years (before the Glazers) of whining about the money their better neighbors spent on their way to Premiership titles and Champions League glory.
Now that Citeh are the ones with the deep pockets — the deepest in the world — suddenly it’s just about “coming together as a team.” To the Citeh supporters, I give a hearty “shut up.”
That City have more money than Allah is undeniable. I say more power to the club if they want to buy their way to a title. But the facts are still there. Chelsea didn’t win a title when they started buying everyone. They won a title when they started buying a player or two and let the core of the team come together. The New York Yankees (this is the only truly analogous side now) tried to buy a title for 7 years before finally breaking through last season after a World Series drought.
The point is — and most Citeh fans will concede this — that money can’t buy a title.
City’s fatal flaw is that the money has created an unworkable glut of players. A large squad is needed these days. But this squad is amazing. Add to it the fact that only 11 can play each game, and you have enough talent to finish in the top 15 of the EPL each season sitting on the bench or left at home. That is a problem, and no matter how good City fans say their team is, that is going to be a problem.
Let’s look at the list, shall we?
– Since the Thaksin takeover in 2007, there have been 37 players brought into Eastlands. 37! On the other side, more then 20 players have left Citeh, but that still creates a net gain of 15-17 players in two years.
– Just looking at last season, the list is mind-blowing: Gareth Barry, Roque Santa Cruz, Stuart Taylor, Carlos Tevez, Emanuel Adebayor, Kolo Toure, Sylvinho, Joleon Lescott and Adam Johnson along with Patrick Vieira and Marton Fulop on loan. This season, add Jerome Boateng, Yaya Toure, Alezsandar Kolarov, Mario Balotelli and James Milner.
– For all of the talent on Citeh, their scoring last season was shockingly one-sided. Carlos Tevez led the team with 23 league goals. Adebayor had a respectable 14 and Craig Bellamy 10. Beyond that, nobody had more than four goals. Tevez accounted for a stunning 35 percent of Citeh’s scoring.
– In 2009-10, Citeh allowed more goals than anyone in the top 7 with 45.
– Here’s where my point becomes clear: The superstars of Citeh didn’t play well against other big sides, and they played down to the level of lesser opponents. Under Mancini, they had a victory over Chelsea, but they also lost to Spurs twice, Everton twice and Hull City while only earning draws with Liverpool and Arsenal and losing to Manchester United. It’s clear that while the talent was there, the only thing that could be completely counted on was Tevez.
– In 2010-11, Citeh are no longer a curiosity. They are among the hunted. They also have to earn their spot ahead of Spurs, Liverpool and Everton in the top 4 or 5.
Citeh are an interesting dilemma. They can look as amazing as they did Monday against Seventhpool, or they can sh*t the bed like they did against Spurs — a team they should defeat, to be fair.
I have seen comments (I’m not going to pick on commenter Ryan since he’s been a good sport all week) from Citeh fans proclaiming that this is the year that the Blues not only crack the top four but challenge for the title.
It could happen. They have the talent. However, they also have the egos. How long will it be before Adebayor starts whining about sitting out. And how will the 37 defensive midfielders all get playing time. And then there’s Shay Given.
So my message to Citeh supporters is this: Win something. Win a game against Spurs. Win a cup. Win anything that matters. Then you can talk about how great it is to have all these players in one place.
Until then, you’re just another contender, so shut up.
Coming Thursday: Why Spurs supporters and Liverpool supporters should shut up.
Yesterday:Why Arsenal Supporters Should Shut up
Spurs — a team they should defeat, to be fair.
Based on what criteria, exactly? We did the double over them and finished above them last season. Add in Kolarov, Silva, and Yaya and suddenly we’re a team they should defeat?
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I think you should just not do a write up for Liverpool. That would say more than any post you could come up with.
@LE
Because they have more money than you.
/focus on the City portion
/seriously, it’s ok to admit you’re wound tight because of today’s game
To their abysmal defensive record (and it was abysmal for a team supposedly chasing a top-four spot last year) dropping Given should improve that. For all his good qualities (Or quality? I think he’s a good shot-stopper, that’s about it) organizing a defense is not one of them. So putting a keeper who doesn’t command his box behind a carousel of whatever four defenders happened to be there that day wasn’t a recipe for success.
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That said, it appears Hart may have some of the same issues, but he’s 24 so it’s forgivable. He’s not had the decade-and-a-half to establish himself as a presence in the box that Given has and failed to capitalize on. Plus he’s better as a shot-stopper and he can actually claim a cross, something Given is seemingly unwilling to do. To that end, I don’t understand why he was on the Arsenal radar: he has the same problems as Almunia, although certainly not to the same degree as the hunch-backed one.
/wishes he had Citeh’s money at his club
@TSE: This whinge fest wouldn’t have anything to do with the Glazers defaulting on another round of loans today, would it?
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@JT/LE/et al: I would like nothing better than to see Arry drive this club to the brink of oblivion as he has at every stop along the way. I suppose the benefit to him being the ENT manager would be that there’s no money involved.
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Just in case: what’s the excuse today if they fail to overturn the score in this tie?
I swear to God, if you pile on after we get knocked out of the CL today, Imma burn this bitch down.
Oh my, so much utter tripe to respond to, it’s tough to know where to start.
First of all, the overarching point of this piece seems to be that City have proven nothing yet, and this plan may all go to hell, and we’ll wind with up with nothing but tears.
I agree with this, that is certainly one of many possibilities of how it will turn out. I question if that’s really a reason to “shut up” though.
@Anon: If he won’t I’ll happy to.
/remembers all the Spurs fans he knows delighted that they’d “qualified for the Champions League” after last season
I’m pretty sick of that line. Arry ruins clubs. Bulls**t. A manager does not have a free license to piss away the club’s resources. His job is to run the team on the field. It’s the owners and chairmen who handle the club’s finances. Look at Portsmouth’s string of disreputable and financially unsound owners or chairmen who sanction spending beyond what the club can actually afford. Those are the people to blame. There is a 0% chance the same thing happens at Spurs. Because Levy is a responsible chairman.
@Anonsters
Pretty sure you’ve piled on my lot, so goose/gander, etc.
Now, on to the specifics. First of all:
In 2009-10, Citeh allowed more goals than anyone in the top 7 with 45.
True. It wasn’t good. However, you have to remember that City had two different managers last season, with two very different styles. Under Hughes, City allowed 27 goals in 17 Premier League games, for an average of 1.59 Goals allowed. Under Mancini, 18 in 21, for an average of .86 Goals allowed. So the trend there is certainly in a positive direction.
@ LE: Agree in full. These are different financial times, Levy has already shown he’s not going to mortgage the Lane for short-term chances. You can see some of our frustrations with this summer’s transfer market to see that.
@LE: Apparently Arry did have free license at multiple stops, not just Pompey. Now the fact that club management saw fit to give him that license may be the issue at hand, and I do agree that Levy is unlikely to hand over the reigns. That said, he did allow him to immediately buy back all his players from Pompey at higher prices…
@LE: I’ve had that argument with JT in the past, and he won’t be convinced by facts or logic. We ended up leaving it at, “We’ll see.” Damned Scousers.
@Shane: Sure, he’s been fiscally irresponsible at various clubs. But if you tell a manager, “spend whatever you want on whoever you think is necessary” they’re going to do that. It’s not his job to balance the team’s finances, it’s his job to build the best team possible. And yeah, Levy gave him money when ‘Arry took over. Money we could afford to spend. On players who have largely proved successful.
And, for Citeh fans, well, how many are there besides Ryan? When I’ve met guys who hail from the Manchester area, I’ll ask, “So, Red or Blue?” and I haven’t heard “Blue” yet. I guess if they hit a CL spot this year, there will be more Blue responses, and those are the guys who could shut it.
@LE: *COUGH*crouch*COUGH* :P
And saying a manager only handles on the field activities is pretty naive. Arry’s not a coach, he’s the manager of a football team and therefore is very much in the mix when it comes to how the club allocates its resources. Do you think David Gill rang up Chris Smalling and said, “Oi, ‘ow bout you coming on up to Manchester for a while?” I don’t think that’s how this whole thing works.
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Com’on, man. I know you’re fighting for a place that you feel should be ordained by god himself upon your club, but let’s be real here.
@ Anon: But Crouch will not be sold “for any price”?
Also, I have no idea why I dragged JT into it, since the argument is with Shane. Oopsie. Reflex, I guess.
@Anonsters
I won’t be convinced by facts or logic? Beyond those from SpursTalk and your blinkers? Thought “we’ll see” was about the most civil point at which we could have concluded our little skirmish.
And when did it become so passe to agree to disagree on things?
@Ryan
If you’re still reading, I’d welcome further criticism to this article. Just so TSE has a mountain of defending to do when he gets back later today.
@JT: On the ‘Arry-ruining-Spurs-financially point, no, you won’t. Shane won’t either, apparently. All anyone has to do is open their eyes and look at the way Levy has conducted business to see that he’s not going to let ‘Arry go nuts.
@Anonsters
OK. Now, were we talking about Manchester City at some point in this article?
@anon: What? He’s been LARGEly successful. HAHA. GET IT?! Because he’s large!
/I laugh to keep from weeping.
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@Shane: I’m not saying his only job is to train players. My point is that a manager does not have a blank checkbook (except for Mancini). The chairman is ultimately responsible for any financial decisions the club makes. This is a fairly straightforward concept. I don’t know if you’re deliberately missing the point to wind me up, or if you really don’t realize that a club manager has a boss who gets to tell him what to do.
Also, why do I have a feeling that in the Spurs-shut-up article, something will be said about our threadjacking, um, basically every thread in existence? :D
I have no clue why you’d think that, Anonsters. I mean, you’ve only gone and ruined Ryan’s time in the spotlight here. :(
Spurs had a pre-tax profit of 33m before Arry’s arrival. I’ll be interested to see their financials from one full year under his reign. I’m sure any losses will be summarized as “outlays toward future growth/training ground improvements”.
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They’ve hedged their bets against regular qualification for the Champions League-proper, not third-round qualifiers. I just think Spurs fans are way too enthusiastic about a manager that’s won piss-all at the top level, a fluke FA Cup against n-Powership competition aside. (And one that was won with a squad he built featuring John Utaka on 80k/week)
@JT: Fittingly enough, since he’s a Citeh supporter. :P
“For all of the talent on Citeh, their scoring last season was shockingly one-sided… Beyond that, nobody had more than four goals. Tevez accounted for a stunning 35 percent of Citeh’s scoring.
Again, true. May be a problem this year, may not. However, what percentage of United’s goals came from Rooney and own goal? I would guess that’s a pretty high percentage as well. Again, a problem with the club? Sure. A reason to “shut up”? Eh.
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Under Mancini, they had a victory over Chelsea, but they also lost to Spurs twice, Everton twice and Hull City while only earning draws with Liverpool and Arsenal and losing to Manchester United.
True. But look at those fixtures. We’ve already taken more points off Spurs than last year. We’ve already taken more points off Liverpool than last year. The two United victories, soul-crushing as they were, were both lost on 90th+ minute goals. You really think based on the improvements already seen this season an improvement won’t be seen in that department as well?
@LE: Little bit of both. I just think Arry’s an average manager who keeps getting jobs he shouldn’t. Good luck today, because if you miss out on this boat I’d hate to think what’s going to happen to your impeccable finances when you finish 6th this year.
@Shane: Says a Rangers supporter. Tee hee.
Ok, to comment on TSE’s article about City. What is your point about them bringing in 37 players in the past three years? Isn’t that what you’re supposed to do when your team was nearly relegated in 2007 and you want better players who can challenge for the title? In the same three years, Chelsea brought in 32 players. That worked out pretty well for them.
@Ryan: After week one, people were ready to call City a disaster in the making (they were somewhat fortunate to get the draw). After week two, people are calling them legit threats for the title.
It’s a long season.
However, they also have the egos. How long will it be before Adebayor starts whining about sitting out. And how will the 37 defensive midfielders all get playing time. And then there’s Shay Given.
I understand we’ve now reached the portion of the article where the one line zingers start getting fired, so fair enough. I’ve certainly taken enough shots at other clubs that way. However, this paragraph doesn’t make a whole ton of sense.
First, if Adebayor starts whining, we’ll just have to make do with a front line of Tevez and Ballotelli. Oh my, how will we cope? If he keeps whining, ship him off to one of the Serie A clubs he seems to fancy so much.
Second, 37 DMs? I know that’s an exaggeration, but I have a hard time seeing past Yaya, Nigel, and Garry Barry. Not really seeing the excess here.
Third, what about Given? If he wants to stay, he can stay, and probably get a fair number of games. If he wants to go, Mancini is happy to let him go (not to Arsenal though, sorry Gooners).
@PR: Oh, I know. Had to shake my head reading the City message board on Monday night. Every player against Liverpool seemed to have earned a “10″ ranking, and we may never lose again. These were the same folks calling for Mancini’s head after Spurs of course.
@Ryan
Shudder to think what those boards will say with two wins in a row!
And to think, JT wanted him to have his moment in the spotlight.
/barf
Final point, I promise.
The point is — and most Citeh fans will concede this — that money can’t buy a title.
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Let’s just keep this in mind for future argument’s sake if City ever do win anything okay?
All of this is rendered moot by what the team actually does. But boy howdy, is it fun in the interim.
@Ryan
I feel like TSE’s still due to chug a pint of urine…
My last point: COYS!
/ahem
@ Ryan: I guess one of the things that gets to me about Citeh, and its not fans, is the fact you guys can afford to keep a guy like Given as your No 2. Most clubs, seeing the value this guy could get in the market, would be seeking a bidding war amongst their challengers for him. But Citeh, b/c they don’t have to worry about getting some return value, can afford to sit him behind Hart and call upon him as needed. Also, the fact you guys can turn out Bellamy and pick up Balotelli whilst I must fret over snapped groins and lack of depth is slightly annoying. However, I relish in the fact that SWP is still pants.
Pretty sure money can buy a title. Somewhere in ‘Soccernomics’ they correlated EPL table finish with wages (over like a decade or something)—and I know this will shock you—but the top wage paying-clubs were also the top finishers (not necessarily the league winner every year, but if you were outspending, you were going to the Champions League)…
OM: PANTS I say! But yeah, I totally understand your point. Believe me, I understand how City can be disliked, even hated. I don’t really begrudge anyone that right, there are certainly enough unseemly things about the club to justify some of it.
To echo OM, a lot of my fresh vitriol is borne from jealousy at the change in fortunes. But that’s life.
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Citeh have always been a curious beast to me. They’re my Uncle’s team of choice, a team upon which he has lavished his full attention for as long as I’ve been born. He has every kit they’ve ever made. MCFC denim jacket. Wears Man City stuff every chance he gets. Even he’s a little perturbed at the rapidity with which the workingman’s club has gone from the days of hard-edged midfielders and beloved/errant strikers (Shaun Goater, Paulo Wanchope) to this continental quality that now bestows Eastlands on a weekly basis.
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Maybe I’m not so much angry at Citeh, but at the “loss” of another old-timey club to the trappings and grandeur of the modern era. Yes, I know I sound “get off my lawn” with this, but even though I’m comfortable with the game of soccer in 2010, warts and all, I still struggle to adapt when another club makes that leap from provincial team to one with global aspirations.
PR and I agree on something. Is that the 4th Horseman I see over there?
Money, spent wisely or not, can buy something. In US elections, there is a significant correlation between the the candidate that spends the most money and the success rate of said candidate. But, quoth P. Diddy, “Mo money, mo problems.”/could not resist
Feed the Goat!
Exactly, OM!
“There’s only Waaaaaan-chope”
@OM: I’m sure Goat would agree with that sentiment, too.
See, stuff like that is what I remember about City. I could look it up, but I think it was their 1st year back in the Prem, they were playing @ Maine Road, and the TV commentary was laying out the storyline for their year: Will City stop being a running joke of a club and start playing like their red neighbors? That seems so long ago.
So, not to threadjack this muhfug again, but is it normal that I’m rapidly switching back and forth between giddy, butterfly-tingly, nauseous, and depressed, and we still have 3 hours to go before the game? I’m going to be worn out before it even starts.
@ JT: Slightly disturbed that they made MCFC denim jackets. For some reason, I’m picturing a stonewashed item with that crest on the back with cuffs and a collar that’s been attacked by a B-Dazzler.
@ Anon: You’re not alone. Had to walk it off a short time ago, and about to do so again.
@anon: I feel the same way. I don’t think I’m going to survive the anticipation, let alone the game.
@OM: Worn with ball hugger jeans, I’m sure. Man-CT. Ew.
@OM
There’s a lot of Man City gear out there. Trust me. I know because my Uncle has it. (and it’s all pretty awesome, tbh)
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Global, overarching reason for my vitriol: yet another club that can knock my club off its cushy 4th-placed pedestal that we enjoyed unchallenged for so long. Bah humbug.
^ Ha, I just realized Man-CT (man-cameltoe) sounds/looks like Man City. Coincidence? I think not.
@ Anon: I’ve got to stop reading your comments whilst preparing to drink something…I’m cleaning off my computer screen again.
@ JT: That’s why we all should gang up on ManU. They’re getting older, the Glazers are defaulting, Sir Alex is signing players he hasn’t even seen.
@Ryan: Tough to knock on you because you’ve been so level-headed about the whole thing. And, tbh, City is clearly a threat going forward; I don’t think anybody refutes their potential.
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However, shaking 34 years of futility and Geordie-esque fat bastards who get Kaka’s name tatted to their chest is not erased immediately. The risks of not gelling are real and for all the talent assembled, there’s no guarantee on any of them – be it due to size or mentality. So I think the “shut up” here revolves around 34 years of ick as compared to one year and 2 games worth of “hmm, these guys could be dangerous.”
@OM: Jeez, can’t you wait til Friday? Let the berties have their fun today.
@ Wedel: My lame attempt @ giving JT something to aspire to; he seems a bit down & dumpy since Monday afternoon…
@OM: I know, just didn’t want to play defense before Friday.
/like he has a chance of staying ahead of this crowd
@OM: Down and dumpy? That’s just him being English, silly.
@ Anon: Fair point, but there’s a bit more of a “Maybe Phil Collins isn’t the greatest musician” doubting sadness about it.
Re: Phil Collins
I’m just upset he doesn’t get deserved praise for being an excellent drummer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA3rJXV4R4E
on my phone…
shane, this started with my chelsea friend talking out his ass. my vitriol is fair, and we`re just having fun.
ryan, you are a gentleman. cheers. but there is truth among the holes in this post.
and don`t worry. i will not be letting united fans off the hook. in any way.
@JT: You know we love you, right? Otherwise we wouldn’t tease so much. :)
/mwah
@JT: Yes, but as the Fiver said the other day, it doesn’t erase the fact that he has forever defiled the airways with “Easy Lover” and “Groovy Kind of Love.” One cannot unhear those. And for that he should burn.
Just reading through the thread. Kind of hard to hate City when Ryan is so reasonable.
That being said…I am looking forward to the meltdown when it’s Spurs turn.
@anonsters
Of course! Mutual feelings.
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@Wedel
Unfair. Everyone’s allowed to experiment. Forgiveness is required.
@JT: Some experiments are better left in the lab. There was no reason that those weapons of aural destruction needed to be unleashed on unsuspecting civilians.
@Wedel
Re: experiments better left in the lab
Three words: Happy Mondays comeback
@TSE: I can accept that. I still think a Man Inc. supporter can’t really give a fair analysis of Citeh at this time, especially given that they’re going to finish ahead of you in the league.
/wind up
Anyone wanna discuss Inter running losses pushing €750m over the past few years?
@Ryan: I think the truism that Stephen Ireland mentioned when comparing Citeh Youth to Villa Youth – “they act like they’ve already played 200 EPL matches” applies at least in part to City supporters– you’re acting like you’ve won the league already (note- at times. For the most part you’re cool, but the last couple of weeks I’ve noticed a severe uptick in smugness levels). You might not yet be on the level of Spurs supporters, but you’re getting dangerously close to those levels. Mind those wax wings.
I’ve been in meetings all morning, but I just wanted to say that Pupsters and LE’s nervousness for a CL play-off with Young Boys is just downright precious.
Side note: apparently the new name for Citeh’s reserve team is the “Elite Squad.” It’s too bad The Expendables was taken.
@Keith: Amazing video.
@Shane: Credit the fine folks at Pies for finding it. . . although it’s a continuation of the Gunners video linked on this very site.
@JT: How dare you mock Happy Mondays!
/who’s gonna step on you again?
@TSE
I’m mocking their 2007 comeback, mate. Admit that it was dreadful. Their 90s stuff should have been it! I even loved Black Grape, too.
@JT: OK, I admit it was crap. And yes, I was a huge Black Grape fan, too.
@JT; @TSE: I can’t comment directly as I never followed them. That said, I have heard/seen numerous references that Happy Mondays (and Stone Roses, for that matter) should have just left their legacies well enough alone.
Championship clubs hate us too:
http://www.tribalfootball.com/doncaster-chairman-ryan-man-city-are-wrecking-championship-integrity-1066401
@Ryan
“City” is the new euphemism for “evil”, I guess.
@ Ryan: That is sour grapes. Prem clubs loan players to Championship clubs every transfer season, that lends to the beautiful unpredictability he’s referencing. He just needs to get over it.
@Wedel @TSE
Holy s**t, we must have been tapping into the collective subconscious as our Happy Mondays talk coincides nicely with this:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/celebritynews/7963609/Bez-cries-victory-is-in-my-grasp-as-he-is-jailed.html
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Oh, Bez. You lovable/criminal hype man.