Will they ever join the EPL?
This is one of those silly discussion starters of a post that is hooked to a column or a small piece of news. That said, it’s interesting to talk about, anyway.
Celtic majority shareholder Dermot Desmond says his club and Rangers would survive in the EPL, and with the Old Firm gone, the SPL would actually be better off.
There is something to his argument, no matter how far-fetched the move is.
“I’m a believer if you have content and tradition like Celtic and Rangers have then they add something to the Premier League,” he said.
“I think it will be good for football in Scotland, for football in England, in Britain and in Europe.”
Over the past decade, Celtic and Rangers seem to be thriving on reputation over all else. Sure, they run away with the SPL every season and make it into the Champions League, but they don’t challenge beyond that.
The Champions League is actually what I think is interesting about this discussion. For the English clubs like Liverpool, the Champions League is a needed and powerful financial boon that none of the big clubs would want to give up. Desmond seems to think that giving up for the benefit of the Champions League would be worth it for the financial benefit of the EPL.
As far as the possibilities, Desmond thinks it’s too tough on the other SPL clubs to deal with the size and budget of the Old Firm.
“The budget Celtic and Rangers have dwarfs the budgets of the other clubs. It is very hard for the other clubs to compete although they do compete very well with the funds available.
“If Celtic and Rangers moved south it would enable those clubs to be more competitive and not to have the financial pressures because Celtic and Rangers are in their league.
“I think Celtic and Rangers bringing up the Arsenals, the Uniteds, the Liverpools, the Manchester Citys and the Spurs will encourage and develop football in Scotland.
“If you see these great Premiership players playing on a weekly basis it will improve and encourage more Scottish people to play football. I think it will also give Scotland a greater identity.”
This is a moot argument, I realize, but it’s an interesting one. I think it makes sense. Hell, Cardiff is in the Football League, so why not Celtic or Rangers? Start them at the nPowership and let them earn their way up. If they stay, great. If not, well, fook off.
That’s the way I see it, anyway.
I wonder if they could measurably improve their teams if they were in the Premiership. Are there really that many game-changing players that might say, “eh, I won’t sign to play in Glasgow if I’m playing Dundee and Aberdeen every year. But now you’re playing Wigan and Wolves? Alright!”
“I think it will be good for football in Scotland, for football in England, in Britain and in Europe.”
–
Sure. Not really. Eh? No way.
But, don’t Celtic & Rangers get a financial benefit of getting into the Champs League year in/year out? Would a move into the English system increase their revenues more than being guaranteed CL money every year?
Stick ‘em at the bottom of the pyramid and let them scrounge their way up. If they make it, great. If not, too bad. I don’t think they should just be handed a spot at the expense of another team. I can’t see how they improve the English game enough to warrant their inclusion at the expense of some deserving Championship side.
Sigh… I don’t even want to jump into this but here we go:
We operate with TV revenue similar to that of League One sides, so that alone would cover the gap needed to make the jump. Our current squads would be good enough to finish mid-table in the EPL in our first season. Our stadiums are bettered only by the Old Traffords and Emirates of the EPL. All that other stuff.
.
I already know this is going to devolve into a “The SPL is s**t” discussion. I love when the media says, “Yeah, but there’s no media coverage of the SPL,” and that’s the only media coverage we get: the media saying the media doesn’t give the SPL the time of day. There’s a quote from the former Cubs leftfielder Billy Williams. He was being interviewed and the interviewer asked him why there were always stories about Ernie Banks, stories filled with quotes from Ernie, but never any about him. I forget the exact response but it was to the effect of, “I don’t write the stories; you guys do.” This is the situation with the SPL: the only discussion or coverage of it on a large scale is how there’s never any discussion or coverage of it.
.
We’d make your league better. You could either have 51,000 at Ibrox or 60,000 at Parkhead instead of a half-filled The Stadium Formerly Known as The JJB.
@OM: EPL TV revenue far outweighs what we get from the CL right now.
I’m not going to say the Old Firm isn’t midtable quality. But the fact is, Wigan earned their right to be in the EPL. There’s plenty of clubs in the lower leagues with good fanbases and decent sized stadiums that don’t merit a place in the EPL because they haven’t been good enough over the years. If one day they become good enough, they’ll get back in the Premiership. But I don’t think it’s right to just hand a spot to Celtic and Rangers just because they’re bigger clubs than Blackpool and Wigan.
@LE: I’m not going to argue that. If they want to stick us in n-Power Two then so be it. We’d be in the EPL in three years. The “earned right” argument gets tired. This is a business decision; we are a more viable business option than some of the crap taking up space around the English leagues right now.
Could the Prem expand by two teams, to a total of 22? That way the Old Firm can cash in on EPL riches and the standard 3 teams get be promoted from the Championship.
It would be tough to jam an extra 4 games into the schedule I think.
OK, I could understand that if the money is better in terms of TV revenues, then Celtic & Rangers would benefit. But how would them leaving benefit the SPL (suck it Clydesbank) again? You lose your headliners, promote 2 new sides and what, have the same media deals that you had before?
@ RFC: I thought at some point UEFA and Platini were trying to encourage the top flights to contract to only 18 clubs like Bundesliga (obviously so they could jam in more UEFA competitions w/fewer league matches) so I don’t think expansion to 22 would ever be broached.
The club that wins the SPL, should play a match against the winner of the Championship promotion play-off. The winner then joins the Prem with the two automatically promoted side from the nPowership.
@OM: I’ve gotta believe that the revenue Rangers and C*ltic would generate in the EPL would trickle down into Scottish football, at least some of it. (Actually, I’m sure the SFA would demand it.) The SPL would actually be competitive again without us, more sides would get into Europe at some level. It’s never going to catch up to the big boy leagues as it is right now so I don’t think the expectation could ever be there for it to. But reaching the levels of the Eastern European countries wouldn’t be bad. Plus I’m sure player development would get a boost, all the way through the Scottish system.
.
Look at Hibs over the past five years: the reason they haven’t competed is because the OF bought up all of their talent. If they actually had something bigger to shoot for besides 3rd in a two-team league they might be able to hang onto players like Whittaker, Brown, Fletcher, et al.
How about taking Celtic and Rangers and put them in the playoff with the 3-6 finishers in the Championship. Winner gets promoted and one extra team gets relegated to League 1 to make room.
There’d never be an initial arrangement in which one of us got left behind. Whatever level we would start at in the EFL system the two OF derbies that season would be two of the highlight games for that league. Taking one at a time just wouldn’t make sense for anyone involved.
I just think it needs to be reiterated: this is not a competition decision. Whatever level we start at we’d be in the EPL in the minimum number of years necessary. This whole thing is a financial/business decision, and from that stance I don’t see how England can continue to avoid this out of anything other than brute ignorance. You have select teams from Wales playing in your system; just because you let them in decades ago doesn’t mean you can’t do the same with the Old Firm now. Besides, we almost won your precious FA Cup in 1887; Queen’s Park played in two finals in the same decade.
@ Shane: I could see some money being funneled to the SPL (suck it Clydesbank) for a period of time, but also those clubs that would have the chance to get CL & EL places in the absence of the OF would likely get waxed for a period of time, and wouldn’t that lower the league’s UEFA rating and potentially put them at risk of losing 2 CL placings and reduce them to 1 qualifying spot for the SPL (suck it Clydesbank) champion?
@OM: That’s already happened, so that’s a moot point. They’d be better off with more Europa League spots anyways, and doing away with this ridiculous notion of giving spots to teams because of cup finishes. Having the likes of Ross County, near-relegated Falkirk, and Queen of the South eligible for places in Europe isn’t doing the coefficient any favors.
Let’s make a league ‘twixt the EPL and NPowership. Let’s call this league “Limbo” or “Purgatory”, and in it, we’ll throw all the teams deemed too good for the NPower and too poor for the EPL.
Hell, why not just merge the entire SPL into the FA? And while we’re at, un-devolve Scottish gummint, too.
/FREEEEEEEEEEDDDDOOOOOOOOOOOM
@JT: You really want Liverpool in Purgatory?
/hides
I’ve already found the sponsor for that new league JT!
http://z1rhelmets.com/productDetails.jsp?catId=2032&productId=11372&rank=100&tree=2026&branch=2028&leaf=2032
The Phantom Purgatory League, awesome!
@Anonsters
Oh, you silly puppy.
@Shane: From a business perspective, I agree with you, it makes financial sense to have the biggest teams in the EPL. But you can’t remove the merit component from the equation. The leagues are structured with promotion and relegation as an integral part. If it was purely a business decision, the EPL would take the 20 biggest teams and break them away entirely from the football league. But until there’s no more promotion and relegation, you can’t say merit plays no part in this process.
what’s the big deal, all you Brits are alike anyway
@anonsters — absolutely. It’s totally absurd that England, Wales, Scotland, and NI all have their own FAs, leagues, etc considering that they’re all part of the same geographically cohesive state. They should ALL merge and play in single-table leagues as far down the pyramid as finances allow (for travel) — at least all the way down to League 1.
you know what? let them in. They’ll get relegated within two years, and then lose all their good players when they can’t pay them due to Championship “revenues.” Then we can all laugh.
@LE: How’s that different from the current EPL setup, relegation aside? They’re already a big boys club, and they want control of the ENT.
.
For the record, I just finished a business-related get together with a Mancunian expat (Citeh supporter) who’s all for letting them in.
NO WAY do we english want anymore carpet bagging porridge wogs in england.you keep harping on about independence but haven’t got the balls to go for it.why don’t we the english get offered the chance to vote for independence..oh i know why,we’d vote for it,and be better off.we’d deport all illegals and undesirables…etc,etc.so you can stay in the SPL,where you can stagnate,wither,and die..your national team has already started….LMAO…