This is a screengrab from Soccernet shortly after Arsenal’s 3-0 win over Citeh yesterday.
Check the blurb.
Uh no… Arsenal are in second. They are not in “joint second.” It’s second. Period. They are indeed level on points with two other clubs, but that tie gets broken by looking at goal difference, of which Arsenal’s is superior to the other two sides on 17 points.
Can’t you look at your own table? We can.
It doesn’t read:
1. Chelsea
2. Arsenal
2. Manchester United
2. Manchester City
5. Tottenham
There is no such thing as “joint second” here. We realize this sounds nit-picky, but this is something universal throughout soccer. Level on points? Next look at goal difference.
Why even invent a qualifier? Are there editors at soccernet in London? And are they ever embarrassed by how piss poor their reporting is in general?
No, we probably wouldn’t have given this a second thought if it hadn’t been Arsenal (of course if it hadn’t been Arsenal, it probably would have just said that whoever was in plain old second) but we’re not getting all “Whaaa, the media hates us” (although the barely literate uber-hack at soccernet Harry Harris clearly does). We generally find it equally unpalatable when writers are overly effusive about Arsenal as well. To wit: this match report by Kevin McCarra.
Blech.
Even I think you’re overreacting to this.
This may be the most ridiculous whinging Gooner post I’ve seen UF come up with yet.
@Pupsters: I was just about to say this sounds like just another Gooner whinge-fest.
Instead of reading Soccernet, let’s just read this. It’s more intelligent (and dreamily, accurate).
That’s the worst thing I’ve read all day.
^ Lol. I, too, threw up a little in my mouth.
Not only was that Webster article garbage, it was poorly written and unedited garbage. Belongs on Soccernet with all the rest (excepting Phil Ball, who is the lone shining light on that website).
Their German writer is awesome.
I don’t know what you guys are talking about. That was the most intelligent thing I’ve read all day. Granted, I’ve been grading midterms all morning but still.
@Georger: UF’s German writer is better.
/obscene intra-Spurs-fans love fest
This is a completely reasonable and well-thought out complaint. The persuction of Arsenal must be stopped.
The persuction of Arsenal must be stopped.
Indeed.
I second the call to end the persuction of Arsenal.
“Despite eight years in the country, Cesc Fabregas has clearly never heard the phrase ‘one swallow doesn’t make a summer’ after he flung out some mildly inappropriate claims once Arsenal had disposed, rather clinically, of Manchester City’s ten men on Sunday.
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Calmly stating that the Gunners would have won even if City had “15 players” completely belittled the fact that City had ten men for the majority of the game after Dedryck Boyata’s hack on Marouane Chamakh resulted in a deserved dismissal.
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Even though it was Cesc who was most vociferous in a gaggle of red shirts demanding a red card from Mark Clattenberg in the aftermath, he seemed to have instantly forgotten the fact. Claiming few teams can live with Arsenal’s tempo is a bit rich given City were a man light, and that West Brom seemed to do a decent job of it a few weeks back at the Emirates.
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However misplaced, at least his enthusiasm may pep up his team-mates in the weeks to come. We can all agree that Arsenal in full flight are worthy of a watch, but here’s another phrase for your notebook Cesc: ‘Don’t run before you can walk’.”
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See, ESPN isn’t totally worthless.
I swear I’ve heard the phrase “joint top” or “joint 3rd” or what have you a bunch of times, and not just from Soccernet.
/waves card at PR in perfect Cesc impression
//Rolls around on pitch
I like the direction this thread is heading.
——–< (That's a hair being split.)
From the Arsenal Insider from last March.
Headline: “Arsenal Go Joint Top”
Oh, so, stupid then.
That picture reminded me…I love the fact that a multi man-on-man dogpile is NOT considered excessive celebration, while an individual taking his shirt off is. Can’t we have both? Just for laughs?
@MW: You should write Fat Sepp a letter.
Bah. I was on my phone. You all persuck.
Everyone on this thread is free to blow me.
It’s not enough that the fucking headline has to point out that the win was against ten men, but it gets reiterated in the cutline. Add that to the “joint second” (and Ryan, if they were level on GD then fine, but they aren’t here) and, well, it fucking annoyed me.
Yes, there was an early red. It was the right call. Everything about that pic reeks of trying to diminish the win. It’s not just yesterday. I’m sure as the Pool fans will largely agree, the backhanded editorializing over there is constant.
It’s not just Soccernet though. Look at the Guardian.
References to the red card in both the headline and the second sentence.
Mentioning that City (deservedly) played with 10 men in no way reeks of trying to diminish Arsenal. It’s reporting what happened.
Darn. Messed up the link. http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/oct/24/manchester-city-arsenal-premier-league
You want diminishing, try this article .
First there is usually a difference between who files a story and who writes a headline. They are almost always different people. So, I would hope that McCarra (whose match report I referenced in the post) would mention the red card in the first or second sentence.
But the main feature slot on the Soccernet homepage—headline, cutline, blurb—that is probably handled by one individual. So they aren’t really analogous situations.
Ah, got me there, that’s fair enough. However, aren’t you the guy who always cautions that when it’s between a conspiracy or incompetence, go with incompetence?
But then in this situation, rather than it being evidence of some ESPN guy getting his phrasing slightly wrong, it’s evidence of the vast anti-Arsenal conspiracy?
I am indeed firmly in the incompetence or laziness over conspiracy… And I used to laugh off all of the media conspiracies against Arsenal type talk. And I still do for the most part. I guess I did a really poor job here as this was sort of more of an amusing annoyed that a pissed off one.
But… Soccernet is an easy target because of Harry Harris. As a guy who writes books about Spurs, probably not too hard to see that things that have his fingerprints on them wouldn’t always be objective. So, we’ll just stick with incompetent there. Not saying he’s responsible for the stuff on the post here, but it’s almost comical how often anything written about the Arse over there comes with a back-handed jab or two.
To a larger extent about the English media in general… again I want to stay away from ‘conspiracy’ because I don’t think there is one. But when you get Trevor Francis, a former Birmingham player, doing color on the Arse v. Brum match and when he watches a Birmingham CB elbow Chamakh in the head and say, “Nothing in that, fair play,” you start to wonder how they can have no pretense of objectivity and keep their jobs.
Sure that’s a data point of one, but it seems to happen several times in a season. Maybe I just notice it more because I watch pretty much every Arsenal match. It’s who I pull for. I have an irrational emotional attachment. So I’m sure I’m not objective.
Again, I don’t think there is a conspiracy, but I’m starting to buy that there might be some less than subtle xenophobia from some of older commentators that seeps into the coverage. It not just paid talking heads or writers. I see it over here as well when watching matches with ex-pats. Some of the things they say are startlingly ignorant.
Your point, counselor? It’s entirely possible to be irritated by something in a way you find laughable. Or does that not register to your Spurs-addled brain?
@PR: Oh hai. This is not a stick with which I’m poking you for fun.
/ceci n’est pas un pipe’d
I just don’t think this is an example of editorializing, I see joint used wrongly all the time from lots of different places. So I guess lazy, in the end.
Imagine that. People using joints, rightly or wrongly, being lazy.