Two More Trees Fall In Empty WPS Forest (UPDATE)

I know MLS has all sorts of problems of its own and likely couldn’t finance women’s teams but that would seem to be the best situation for everybody. Certainly it’s not perfect but sharing resources would make more sense. I could definitely see going to a double-header to watch the Crew women’s team before an MLS match. It would likely raise the profile and fanbases of both the men’s and women’s teams.

@Goat
That’d probably work, but I’m sure the WPS doesn’t want to tie itself to the MLS in that manner, as to some it might look like it’s desperate for a bailout from the stronger–but not dominant yet–men’s league.

@JT: You’re probably right. Although that certainly shouldn’t be their concern as I’m sure the majority of folks who are marginally aware of WPS probably conflate it with WUSA–that is WPS shouldn’t worry too much about damaging an established brand. Instead they should worry about promoting women’s soccer. But then when has the American soccer establishment cared more about promoting the game than its own egos and petty differences?

@StretEnd: I don’t think there will ever be a market to watch women’s professional soccer in the US that rivals that of men’s leagues. I love the game, but I cannot stick with a women’s game on TV for much the same reason I don’t watch women’s basketball; I have become accustomed to a level of athleticism while watching those sports that women cannot deliver. I am not questioning whether the players themselves possess skills at the game(s), they obviously could outplay me or most other amateurs. But basketball that spends most of the game below the rim and still sees set shots, and soccer with lots of hustle but little speed or power holds no interest for most fans of the game(s). It may be politically impolite to mention this but I am surely not alone in this position.

What do you tell your daughter? Stick with soccer if you love the game. Your daughter’s future in soccer should be to get a Title IX scholarship to college. She has a better shot at it than my son.

I’m not sure how much of the disdain for women’s sports is some sort of inherent problems with lack of athleticism and how much is just down to the lack of the same type of history and culture surrounding the games. Look for instance at UT or UConn women’s basketball. The fandom for those two teams is well beyond other women’s teams because they’ve been winning and have been doing so for a long time. Students and townies actually go to women’s games–it’s something they’ve been almost conditioned to do. It might not necessarily be the same level of support for the men’s teams (although I think in years past the UT women have outdrawn the men–perhaps Shane can shed some light on this). It’s the same argument against MLS in this country–that we’ll only watch Euro leagues because they’re so much better. That’s an argument that I don’t think is without merit, I just think MLS’s lack of popularity is due more to historical factors and the lack of a longstanding professional soccer culture.

^I guess that was just a roundabout way of saying women professional soccer players should wear tight short shorts.

Goat, I was thinking the exact same thing. Sure, you’d lose the identity of a true women’s league if the WPS came under the MLS umbrella, but our top ladies could still be playing competitive footie here in the States. The partnership between the NBA and the WNBA seems to be working, why not try to emulate that? The ladies in England have a successful league going, and I believe most if not all of the women’s teams are part of a larger clubs. Reading FC have a very strong women’s team, and I believe the Arsenal Women are the current English champs. Maybe MLS could use some of that Adidas money to not only re-start the Reserve League, but also kick-off their own Women’s competition.

@RFC: Yeah, I was thinking about the WNBA, too, but I’d like to see a closer relationship between MLS and their women’s teams (i.e. same team names, uniforms, etc. unlike the WNBA). I think that would also make MLS seem more European (if that makes sense) in that the teams would actually be more like clubs rather than franchises.

See, fine folks at Needs More Kittens–we can talk reasonably about women’s soccer. Except for that insensitive comment about short shorts.

Man, even reading about the WPS bores me to tears.

@ Goat!: Fat Sepp approves heartily. Dumb Idea #10 should have been implemented to keep these clubs in business?

I echo hockalees position.

I think the NBA subsidizes the WNBA at a severe loss. Talking millions maybe ten(s) of millions per year.

Mountag WAG alert: Fergie now says Rooney only out “3 weeks and a bit”. Already made a a miraculous recovery from Friday it appears.

Using the WNBA/NBA as a model is not particularly good. Most of the original franchises in NBA cities have left or been sold by the NBA owners. They have franchises in Tulsa, Seattle, Connecticut now and attendance is poor. I think the NBA props the league up.

No one asked me, but I always thought the women should play in small to mid-sized markets. Places like Omaha, Tulsa, Fresno, etc., where they wouldn’t compete with other pro sports.

It’s a hard road — women’s pro softball is basically dead, women’s pro beach volleyball is dead in the United States. The only two sports that work are tennis and golf and the LPGA has moved a significant portion of their events to Asia.

@ Corky: Good point; women’s tennis = not bad. Why is that? I’ll watch a women’s Open tournament over other women’s events and I’m not sure why.

@ OM. It is an interesting discussion about women’s tennis. They have history — we all grew up watching Navratilova and Evert. The quality is good. They actually play a game that we are more familiar with (which is similar to golf as well).

And it doesn’t hurt that some of the ladies are quite attractive.

Both tennis and golf are individual and have history — there has to be something to that.

And it doesn’t hurt that some of the ladies are quite attractive.

This does not explain why beach volleyball has failed.

It’s not like male beach volleyball is booming though is it? Seems that there it might be more of a problem with the sport in general than with either gender.

@Ryan: I think the problem is that our wives would not want us watching beach volleyball all weekend long.

My wife gets suspicious if I watch women’s soccer.

This also marks the second consecutive season that the WPS champion will fold.

Oy.

The problem is that women’s sports are worse than men’s sports. Why would people want to watch a worse version of a sport that they already watch? It’s why people like me who watch the superior EPL can’t justify devoting more of my free time to watching MLS.
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The problem with women’s sports is women fans. Most people who watch sports are men and these men already have mansports to watch. If WPS can’t convince women that watching women play sports is a worthwhile activity, how can they convince men of the same? Women’s sports need to create demand among women fans.
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It’s like counterprogramming on TV. Don’t put your fledgling comedy show up against Seinfeld. People who want to watch a comedy already have a better comedy to watch. Put it up against CSI and you’ll attract comedy fans who don’t want to watch a crime procedural. Similarly, womensports compete for a male audience against other sports and will lose to the superior product every time. But womensports compete for a female audience against other nonsports interests. You just gotta sell it as a better alternative to the interests women already have.

Most people who watch sports are men and these men already have mansports to watch.

Mansports. Kinda made my day. Of course, you’re competing with a dissolving jaw bone, so.

@ LE: So basically, we should stick to women’s curling every 4 years? Works for me.

@ Corky: There it is! The individual stories/rivalries sometimes work. Martina has never been much of a looker, but as a general sports fan, you had to watch when she and Evert were dueling for titles–it was compelling stuff.

@OM: As compelling as the hawt Swedish women’s curling team? I think not.

@ Anon: See–curling! Intrigue and hawtness (sometimes). And a calendar to boot!

I can really see where Sepp was going with the women’s uniform comments. He should also endorse more calendars like the curling one.

1. @Ryan – 3 weeks? Try 5 as of yesterday: http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11667_6478452,00.html
2. @OM – you like womens tennis b/c of the skirts and grunting. Admit it.
3. @LE – Absolutely. But women have better things to do with their time than watch women’s sports. Because if they are watching sports they are: (a) watching men’s sports in a location with men – to ‘meet’ said men or (b) already involved with a man and have to watch his sports. or (c) shopping while your man is watching sports (so you don’t have to watch too, but still look good when you’re out together). That doesn’t leave a lot of time for watching your own women’s sports.
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Currently, women’s sports (I think) exist entirely for youth role models. Adult women don’t care about the sport, but will attend to show their daughters that they ‘could’ do that if they put their time/effort/heart into it, etc.
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I don’t recall liking professional women’s soccer that much growing up, actually. I didn’t even care about professional men’s soccer. I cared about the same age boys soccer team and the cute guy with long hair who played CM. Girls don’t change much. That’s what young girls (and cougars) are still interested in seeing, fyi.

p.s. I hadn’t seen that skort pic before. That’s soooo Madonna/Geena Davis in A League of Their Own. I wonder if Sepp had an uncle back-in-the-day in American baseball?

@ Wag: You know, I must admit, Maria Sharapova did have me at the first “Huuunhaaa!!!” No hellos necessary.

@Wag: Right, it was 5 weeks yesterday, and Fergie today said it was 3. He’s already made two weeks of recovery in a day!

On beach volleyball, the AVP failed since they were reliant on TV rights. Kind of similar to WPS.

Plus, the FIVB set up their own world tour and forced the US teams to play in it to get Olympic seeding.

““It’s not the players’ fault that the sports consumer can tell the difference between Marta and Cristiano Ronaldo’s skill levels.”
It is amazing that, even at the top level, there is still such a gulf in class between the two best women in the world.”
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PR’s comment from the post that got the kittens mad at you. Classic.

@Tno: They were mad at the post in general. The comments only stoked the fire.
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And they’re welcoming us back to the hate pool today, too!

@Ryan, that MUST be because Dubai is in alcohol-lockdown (someone died and they are mourning). So, he came back from holiday early. With nothing else to do in England, I guess Rooney figured, “why not? I’m sick of being around my cranky wife, might as well play some.”. I’m still counting on an STD for him though…

@Tno – that is funny considering it’s not dogging the ladies, but CR7. Women are waaaaaaay to sensitive. They’d LOVE to have him on one of their teams. Besides getting most of the team maternity leave, he’d help to bring crowds, and probably win games.

@TSE – I’ll tell them where they can put their ‘hate-pool’ comments. (but I can’t tell you, sorry – ladies secret girl talk stuff. I’ll actually have to go to the bathroom to tell them. Rules are rules).